Comments on: If They Build It, Will We Come? http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/ What We Are Learning About Online Learning...Online Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:31:53 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gillian http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-389 Gillian Tue, 03 Jun 2008 13:57:36 +0000 http://415407184#comment-389 Leaving aside the confusion that is sometimes caused - and mentioned above - by the word 'portfolio', portfolios are more boxes-o-bits than boxes-o-stuff. Why the distinction? Because 'stuff' conjures up an amorphous mass and 'bits' are not, they are separate. If we can mentor/teach people to look longterm at what may be of use, whether from their academic life or their social life, we can encourage them to reflect on that and write up a few notes or even just tag each 'bit'. the bits can then be extracted with ease and assembled before being presented to a third party. The individual owns all the content. All we can do is be a party to what they choose to share with us. There are some excellent systems out there that help people gather 'stuff' but arrange it and collect it into 'bits'. What is more, they are platform independent so can be uploaded into university systems or employers systems or Facebook or something else with ease. Top-heavy LMS 'solutions' are a headache for all. Leaving aside the confusion that is sometimes caused – and mentioned above – by the word ‘portfolio’, portfolios are more boxes-o-bits than boxes-o-stuff. Why the distinction? Because ‘stuff’ conjures up an amorphous mass and ‘bits’ are not, they are separate. If we can mentor/teach people to look longterm at what may be of use, whether from their academic life or their social life, we can encourage them to reflect on that and write up a few notes or even just tag each ‘bit’. the bits can then be extracted with ease and assembled before being presented to a third party. The individual owns all the content. All we can do is be a party to what they choose to share with us. There are some excellent systems out there that help people gather ‘stuff’ but arrange it and collect it into ‘bits’. What is more, they are platform independent so can be uploaded into university systems or employers systems or Facebook or something else with ease. Top-heavy LMS ‘solutions’ are a headache for all.

]]> By: Mike Minneman http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-388 Mike Minneman Sat, 27 May 2006 10:03:18 +0000 http://415407184#comment-388 Hm. Maybe part of the problem with getting students to use an e-portfolio is defining exactly what an e-portfolio is. Sure it's a place where you put stuff about yourself; "artifacts", but maybe we need to come up with a clearer definition of its purposes. The way e-portfolios were marketed to me by some of the professors at ist (I never actually talked with Cole about e-portfolios specifically, but some of the other professors) was as an evolution of the resume, something that would greatly benefit a job search. Hm. Maybe part of the problem with getting students to use an e-portfolio is defining exactly what an e-portfolio is. Sure it’s a place where you put stuff about yourself; “artifacts”, but maybe we need to come up with a clearer definition of its purposes. The way e-portfolios were marketed to me by some of the professors at ist (I never actually talked with Cole about e-portfolios specifically, but some of the other professors) was as an evolution of the resume, something that would greatly benefit a job search.

]]> By: Michael Feldstein http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-387 Michael Feldstein Fri, 26 May 2006 23:51:20 +0000 http://415407184#comment-387 Exactly. The only cases in which ePortfolios matter for jobs are those professions that already use portfolios, e.g., graphic design, architecture, etc. On the other hand, everyone can benefit from a little introspection. Exactly. The only cases in which ePortfolios matter for jobs are those professions that already use portfolios, e.g., graphic design, architecture, etc. On the other hand, everyone can benefit from a little introspection.

]]> By: D'Arcy Norman http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-386 D'Arcy Norman Fri, 26 May 2006 21:06:20 +0000 http://415407184#comment-386 IMO, portfolios aren't for HR or hiring purposes at all. I see them as more important for personal/professional development than as filters for screening potential employees. In the same way that HR/employers wouldn't necessarily care about specific project work done in a course or program, they shouldn't care about the exact type of personal development - except that a potential employee is capable of critical self reflection and growth... IMO, portfolios aren’t for HR or hiring purposes at all. I see them as more important for personal/professional development than as filters for screening potential employees.

In the same way that HR/employers wouldn’t necessarily care about specific project work done in a course or program, they shouldn’t care about the exact type of personal development – except that a potential employee is capable of critical self reflection and growth…

]]> By: Michael Feldstein http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-385 Michael Feldstein Fri, 26 May 2006 20:31:43 +0000 http://415407184#comment-385 The thing is, there's very little evidence that employers are interested in looking at portfolios. I moderated a conference on ePortfolios recently in which we had a couple of employers--an HR person for a big corporation and the CEO of a small technology company. For different reasons, they both said they weren't interested in portfolios. The HR person said she barely has 15 seconds to scan a resume as it is, and the CEO said he doesn't believe they give him enough useful information. On the other hand, there's no reason not to use ePortfolios in a learning context for reflection and peer/mentor review. Mike (or anyone), what is your sense of the value and practicality of trying to tap into that "social sense" for reflective portfolio purposes? The thing is, there’s very little evidence that employers are interested in looking at portfolios. I moderated a conference on ePortfolios recently in which we had a couple of employers–an HR person for a big corporation and the CEO of a small technology company. For different reasons, they both said they weren’t interested in portfolios. The HR person said she barely has 15 seconds to scan a resume as it is, and the CEO said he doesn’t believe they give him enough useful information.

On the other hand, there’s no reason not to use ePortfolios in a learning context for reflection and peer/mentor review. Mike (or anyone), what is your sense of the value and practicality of trying to tap into that “social sense” for reflective portfolio purposes?

]]> By: Mike Minneman http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-384 Mike Minneman Fri, 26 May 2006 19:53:20 +0000 http://415407184#comment-384 I was actually one of Cole's students. Not one of the ones specifically mentioned in that survey, but nonetheless. I think that the concept of facebook and the concept of an eportfolio are pretty different things. Facebook is a social networking tool. It's just another way to communicate with your friends. It's nice because it's easy to find out who the people in your classes are, and it's a good way to find out how to contact people after classes. Facebook has pictures where you can "tag" the different people in them, and that's another feature that's pretty cool. Instead of everyone having a different photo album, it becomes a large photo album, because the "pictures of you" aren't just pictures you put up yourself, it becomes a large collective photo album. Facebook and myspace are for your friends, whereas an eportfolio should be more for an employer or professionals. Unfortunately students are going to use fb or ms so they can get phone numbers of cute girls/guys, or figure out what John Doe does in his free time. I think the way to get students to use eportfolios isn't to appeal to their social sense, but rather to give more proof that eportfolios have a practical purpose, that they will increase their odds at a job interview, etc. Most students have a resume, to me an eportfolio should be an evolution of that. I was actually one of Cole’s students. Not one of the ones specifically mentioned in that survey, but nonetheless. I think that the concept of facebook and the concept of an eportfolio are pretty different things. Facebook is a social networking tool. It’s just another way to communicate with your friends. It’s nice because it’s easy to find out who the people in your classes are, and it’s a good way to find out how to contact people after classes.
Facebook has pictures where you can “tag” the different people in them, and that’s another feature that’s pretty cool. Instead of everyone having a different photo album, it becomes a large photo album, because the “pictures of you” aren’t just pictures you put up yourself, it becomes a large collective photo album.

Facebook and myspace are for your friends, whereas an eportfolio should be more for an employer or professionals. Unfortunately students are going to use fb or ms so they can get phone numbers of cute girls/guys, or figure out what John Doe does in his free time. I think the way to get students to use eportfolios isn’t to appeal to their social sense, but rather to give more proof that eportfolios have a practical purpose, that they will increase their odds at a job interview, etc. Most students have a resume, to me an eportfolio should be an evolution of that.

]]> By: Michael Feldstein http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-383 Michael Feldstein Thu, 25 May 2006 00:13:21 +0000 http://415407184#comment-383 I confess that I don't really know why students use MySpace and FB. I've heard all kinds of explanations, including the theory that it's really just an elaborate "Sims"-type game in which students are creating fake identities and trying to score the highest number of "friends" and poach off of their competitors. (My colleague has pointed out to me that there is a large number of "Dirk Digglers" registered on MySpace, for example.) My position isn't literally that we should use one of these existing services. Rather, it's that we should let the students guide the creation of the service that they will use. I confess that I don’t really know why students use MySpace and FB. I’ve heard all kinds of explanations, including the theory that it’s really just an elaborate “Sims”-type game in which students are creating fake identities and trying to score the highest number of “friends” and poach off of their competitors. (My colleague has pointed out to me that there is a large number of “Dirk Digglers” registered on MySpace, for example.)

My position isn’t literally that we should use one of these existing services. Rather, it’s that we should let the students guide the creation of the service that they will use.

]]> By: Jesse McKneely http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-382 Jesse McKneely Wed, 24 May 2006 21:15:25 +0000 http://415407184#comment-382 I think we all may be missing out on why college students use MySpace and FB. If you were to really ask themm and observe their behavior when on these sites, you would realize they are only using them as a dating service/social outlet. Trying to inject an educational element into this environment will fail because it has nothing to do with the real reason why they are there in the first place...anything but learning. I think we all may be missing out on why college students use MySpace and FB. If you were to really ask themm and observe their behavior when on these sites, you would realize they are only using them as a dating service/social outlet. Trying to inject an educational element into this environment will fail because it has nothing to do with the real reason why they are there in the first place…anything but learning.

]]> By: Suzanne Aurilio http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-381 Suzanne Aurilio Wed, 17 May 2006 05:00:59 +0000 http://415407184#comment-381 Great thoughts from all. I've been thinking about social computing and informal/non-formal learning lately. I recently found MySpace music, where bands are setting themselves up, with fans, free downloads and concert calendars. I thought wow, what a great idea. And then I wondered,"Who thought that up?" The creators of MySpace or the bands? I suppose I'm thinking aloud about that kind of learning, that kind of creative problem solving and how to capture it and spread it around. Great thoughts from all. I’ve been thinking about social computing and informal/non-formal learning lately. I recently found MySpace music, where bands are setting themselves up, with fans, free downloads and concert calendars. I thought wow, what a great idea. And then I wondered,”Who thought that up?” The creators of MySpace or the bands? I suppose I’m thinking aloud about that kind of learning, that kind of creative problem solving and how to capture it and spread it around.

]]> By: Catherine Howell http://mfeldstein.com/if_they_build_it_will_we_come/#comment-380 Catherine Howell Mon, 15 May 2006 17:42:14 +0000 http://415407184#comment-380 Great post. We certainly need to listen to students' stories and learn from them. That does not necessarily mean, however, that we serve students' interests best by attempting to mirror their chosen social spaces in the campus online environment (I know that is not what Karen and others are suggesting!). I think we need to remember that connecting with students is just a first step. It's not the main game - that's learning - but it can be a bridge to learning with and from them. I'm a big fan of wikis: without a doubt, wiki is the most used and most liked tool in our campus CMS/VRE. Box O'Stuff plus wiki, or a wiki-like tool, makes a lot of sense to me. Great post. We certainly need to listen to students’ stories and learn from them. That does not necessarily mean, however, that we serve students’ interests best by attempting to mirror their chosen social spaces in the campus online environment (I know that is not what Karen and others are suggesting!). I think we need to remember that connecting with students is just a first step. It’s not the main game – that’s learning – but it can be a bridge to learning with and from them. I’m a big fan of wikis: without a doubt, wiki is the most used and most liked tool in our campus CMS/VRE. Box O’Stuff plus wiki, or a wiki-like tool, makes a lot of sense to me.

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